Report 505
Report #505 Skillset: Tracking Skill: Pit Org: Paladins Status: Completed Nov 2010 Furies' Decision: All climbing out of pits will bypass shroud and be displayed. Problem: Since you cannot see when a shrouded individual climbs out of a pit, it is very annoying for the Tracker trying to reconceal their traps. The most feasible method at the moment is to spam CONCEAL when they see someone fall in. Of course, this method is not very reliable given things like Aeon. And spam is never good anyway. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Allow pits to be reconcealed at anytime again. However, make it so that two people cannot fall into the same pit. Basically, there would be zero changes to how pits functions mechanically for the targets. This solution would only impact the Tracker by making things more convenient. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Create a new ability (Scouting?) in Tracking that is akin to how faeriefire works. (A Tracker's attunement to the environment or scent/track of their foe allows them to detect all movement, etc.) Player Comments: ---on 11/20 @ 18:56 writes: No to solution 1. Making an ability easier to set up is a decent buff to it, and not just a convenience. Why not just make climbing out of pits not cloakable? ---on 11/22 @ 16:15 writes: How is it a decent buff and not a convenience? Balance time is identical, effect on enemies is identical. Please elaborate. ---on 11/23 @ 03:00 writes: Not 'JUST' a convenience. Making the skill more convenient to use is buffing it is my point. Instead of requiring you to be ready to re-conceal at the moment the target climbs out and before they could possibly move, you have a larger period where you can re-conceal the pit, possible the moment they fall in, and then go back to attacking the target or anything else with little concern for exactly when they climb out. If the problem is just that it's currently impossible to tell the moment when a cloaked target climbs out, making climbing out not cloakable seems like a more straight forward solution that won't have any other effect on the skill. ---on 11/23 @ 05:14 writes: Solution 1 is indeed more than convenience. It allows you to conceal and then focus 100% on hindering/offense instead of having to choose between waiting on balance to reconceal or hindering/offense (like bards have to do with pfifth). I'm not really sure why pits need any sort of buff. ---on 11/23 @ 08:46 writes: I can support having climbing out be actions that are not cloakable just like it is usually pretty obvious when a target eats earwort to escape pfifth. Right now there is a discrepancy between regular climbing out and the climb rocks ability where one is cloaked and the other uncloaked, respectively. It would make sense to normalize the two and just have all actions involving climbing out of and exiting a pit successfully be abilities not masked by shroud. ---on 11/23 @ 16:33 writes: Yes, Lehki. That's why Solution #2 is so trackers can see whenever someone climbs out of the pit. I still don't understand your point though. As to Fillin, explain to me what's the difference between attack, attack, conceal versus conceal, attack, attack versus attack, conceal, attack? The balance required is exactly the same. You cannot really compare this to bards ---on 11/23 @ 16:35 writes: Eep, got cut off. -- You cannot really compare this to bards; bards get a notification on when to PerfectFifth again - when their targets eat earwort. I would be perfectly happy with Solution #2, but to say that Solution #1 is a "decent buff" is stretching it. ---on 11/23 @ 21:47 writes: Because if you want to be ready to conceal, you can't be attacking constantly, you need to be ready and have an idea of when they'll be climbing out so you can stop attacking and stay on balance for it. With solution 1 you can just immediately set the pit and then go all out until after they've fallen into the pit again. Attack attack conceal takes timing and experience, Conceal attack attack requires no skill at all to pull off. ---on 11/23 @ 23:25 writes: That's not really that valid of a point. Climb rocks, at least, is on a predictable timer. Just a matter of having a client-side alert to tell when a person is just about ready to get out of the pit. If we're talking about regular climb, then you can account for hindering. Either way, solution 1 is easier, yes, but not the game-changing modification that you're trying to lead folks to believe. ---on 11/24 @ 04:18 writes: I don't know about you, but that sounds exactly like what I was saying. You can time those things because you know what you're doing and have experience with how people can get out of the pit. With solution 1 anybody could easily re- conceal and start attacking again with no guess work or timing involved, and I doubt your timing for regular climb is always perfect and it simply wouldn't need to be with that. And I'm not saying it will be game-changing, but it would not just be a convenience of use like the report makes it out to be. If the problem is climbing out under cloak making people take a complete guess or spam the command, just make it uncloakable, they'd still have to know when to stay on EQ for it with that change. ---on 11/28 @ 06:10 writes: This is not needed. You can easily LOOK and see if they climbed, and warriors have a skill to be able to see this already, which syngergies nicely with pits. Instant re-conceal takes all the skill out of laying pits and concealing, timing on attacks and when to conceal. Allowing this to revert to a "fire-and-forget" skill is simply not warranted. Plus it makes absolutely no sense (i.e. "Hey you, in the pit, don't mind me reconcealing it while you're stuck on a spike. Ignore me so when you climb out you'll hit it again, ok?! Great.") ---on 11/29 @ 01:35 writes: What ability do warriors have that allows them to see when someone climbs out of a pit? I would really like to know. From my knowledge, there is none. That is why this report was created. Solution #2 is asking for the creation of such an ability. ---on 11/30 @ 23:13 writes: I would prefer to see the ability to see someone climbing out of a pit whether cloaked or not, instead of being able to re-conceal while someone is in it (concealing a pit while someone is thrashing about inside it is also awkward!). Conceal and then attack-at-will knowing the pit's all set is definitely a bit of an upgrade (I'm not sure it's -quite- as much as is being stated, but it's definitely an upgrade). Knowing that someone has gotten out is good though, and other classes are able to obviate such with use of skills such as Faeriefire.